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	<title>Comments on: Interview whiteboard coding tests are worthless</title>
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	<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/</link>
	<description>Python, Django, technology, bit o&#039; politics, Seattle...</description>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-1762</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-1762</guid>
		<description>I so agree with this post! One of my favorite interview questions, as an interviewer, is to share some stressful situation/issue, and see how this interviewee woudl help me with it. Then, we go to the whiteboard together and collaborate. Then, I see if they can contribute on a  discussion level, on a problem-solving level, and if this kind of work is interesting to them. I shy from &quot;getting work for free&quot;- because when I&#039;m on the other side, I feel sometimes that interviewers are getting work done for free- but I let the interviewee know that these are the kind of challenges we face in this environment. I also think that taking the spotlight off of them helps, and yet can illuminate areas of their experience for me to judge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I so agree with this post! One of my favorite interview questions, as an interviewer, is to share some stressful situation/issue, and see how this interviewee woudl help me with it. Then, we go to the whiteboard together and collaborate. Then, I see if they can contribute on a  discussion level, on a problem-solving level, and if this kind of work is interesting to them. I shy from &#8220;getting work for free&#8221;- because when I&#8217;m on the other side, I feel sometimes that interviewers are getting work done for free- but I let the interviewee know that these are the kind of challenges we face in this environment. I also think that taking the spotlight off of them helps, and yet can illuminate areas of their experience for me to judge.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-166</guid>
		<description>@Jason: Yep, I agree.  My handwriting is sometimes so bad that I have trouble reading it.  The entire whiteboard coding test environment is a Fail in every respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jason: Yep, I agree.  My handwriting is sometimes so bad that I have trouble reading it.  The entire whiteboard coding test environment is a Fail in every respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-165</guid>
		<description>I noticed nobody mentioned that another big downside to a whiteboard test is that most of us with years and years of experience haven&#039;t written anything by hand since we were in grade school. Having typed just about every word I&#039;ve written in the past 20 years, my handwriting is barely legible and writing out .net code with the nice long framework call names on a whiteboard makes me feel like someone put me in slow motion. They may give you an hour to solve the problem but in reality one only gets about 10 minutes after you subtract the time it takes to physically chicken scratch it out and periodically erase scribbles only you can read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed nobody mentioned that another big downside to a whiteboard test is that most of us with years and years of experience haven&#8217;t written anything by hand since we were in grade school. Having typed just about every word I&#8217;ve written in the past 20 years, my handwriting is barely legible and writing out .net code with the nice long framework call names on a whiteboard makes me feel like someone put me in slow motion. They may give you an hour to solve the problem but in reality one only gets about 10 minutes after you subtract the time it takes to physically chicken scratch it out and periodically erase scribbles only you can read.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-26</guid>
		<description>Ya; I agree white board coding is a waste of interiew time. My only exception is that if it&#039;s done very, very quickly, and used as a lead-in to a broader conversation.

But in general, I always assume that the people interviewing me are very good at programming, and very, very, very bad at interviewing.

The ubitquity of whiteboard coding is good evidence of that.

So I always try to move the interview along, by a) talking a lot about my strengths, b) just admitting &quot;I don&#039;t know&quot; or &quot;I haven&#039;t done much of that&quot; about my weaknesses and getting back to my strengths, c) throwing something on the table, like some diagrams or sample code, to distract them.

If it&#039;s an argumentative crew, I challenge them on some subjective technical point &amp; run the clock down. I know if I&#039;ve won if they say, &quot;Darn, we&#039;re out of time, and I had a whiteboard problem I wanted you to do.&quot;

 ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya; I agree white board coding is a waste of interiew time. My only exception is that if it&#8217;s done very, very quickly, and used as a lead-in to a broader conversation.</p>
<p>But in general, I always assume that the people interviewing me are very good at programming, and very, very, very bad at interviewing.</p>
<p>The ubitquity of whiteboard coding is good evidence of that.</p>
<p>So I always try to move the interview along, by a) talking a lot about my strengths, b) just admitting &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221; or &#8220;I haven&#8217;t done much of that&#8221; about my weaknesses and getting back to my strengths, c) throwing something on the table, like some diagrams or sample code, to distract them.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s an argumentative crew, I challenge them on some subjective technical point &amp; run the clock down. I know if I&#8217;ve won if they say, &#8220;Darn, we&#8217;re out of time, and I had a whiteboard problem I wanted you to do.&#8221;</p>
<p> <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Rob: I agree that you would have indeed dodged a bullet.  You seem to have a good view of the work-life balance. :-) But would you agree that most individuals wouldn&#039;t take it as well as you?

Perhaps such companies deserve the staff they hire. But I see the problem as so many companies using them that they&#039;re impossible to avoid.  And the companies shouldn&#039;t use them in the first place.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob: I agree that you would have indeed dodged a bullet.  You seem to have a good view of the work-life balance. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  But would you agree that most individuals wouldn&#8217;t take it as well as you?</p>
<p>Perhaps such companies deserve the staff they hire. But I see the problem as so many companies using them that they&#8217;re impossible to avoid.  And the companies shouldn&#8217;t use them in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-24</guid>
		<description>One more thought -- about your &quot;sadistic&quot; comment.

One critical thing I look for as an interviewee is &quot;Can I TALK to these people?&quot;

If I put code on the whiteboard and they point out all the semi-colons I missed, or start laughing and tearing it down, I usually just coast through the rest of the interview, thankful that I am about to dodge yet another bullet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thought &#8212; about your &#8220;sadistic&#8221; comment.</p>
<p>One critical thing I look for as an interviewee is &#8220;Can I TALK to these people?&#8221;</p>
<p>If I put code on the whiteboard and they point out all the semi-colons I missed, or start laughing and tearing it down, I usually just coast through the rest of the interview, thankful that I am about to dodge yet another bullet.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-23</guid>
		<description>For senior folks, I think whiteboard tests are a good springboard to a broader discussion about design ideas. I.e. &quot;Why did you do?&quot; But to expect anyone fairly senior to write significant code on the board in 15 minutes is crazy.
Plus, Eclipse does 3/4 of my work anymore, and Firefox+AltaVista does the other 1/4.
I once had an interview where the guy had a printed program he had people analyze. Instead, he asked me to write it from scratch on the whiteboard. When I did just that, he said my answer was &quot;prepared&quot;. Huh whaaaaa? I smiled and asked him, &quot;Come on, seriously, how many people get that one right?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For senior folks, I think whiteboard tests are a good springboard to a broader discussion about design ideas. I.e. &#8220;Why did you do?&#8221; But to expect anyone fairly senior to write significant code on the board in 15 minutes is crazy.<br />
Plus, Eclipse does 3/4 of my work anymore, and Firefox+AltaVista does the other 1/4.<br />
I once had an interview where the guy had a printed program he had people analyze. Instead, he asked me to write it from scratch on the whiteboard. When I did just that, he said my answer was &#8220;prepared&#8221;. Huh whaaaaa? I smiled and asked him, &#8220;Come on, seriously, how many people get that one right?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Bryan: We&#039;ll have to agree to disagree. :-)

As I argued in this post, I agree with a coding test if you&#039;re interviewing a green, no-prior-work-experience individual for a device driver position.  But it&#039;s a waste of time if she has 10 years&#039; development experience writing device drivers for 3Com and Qualcomm.  Asking her a couple of probing questions, and doing &lt;strong&gt;good&lt;/strong&gt; reference checks, will tell you 1e+06 more than making her write bit-twiddling code in an artificial environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryan: We&#8217;ll have to agree to disagree. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As I argued in this post, I agree with a coding test if you&#8217;re interviewing a green, no-prior-work-experience individual for a device driver position.  But it&#8217;s a waste of time if she has 10 years&#8217; development experience writing device drivers for 3Com and Qualcomm.  Asking her a couple of probing questions, and doing <strong>good</strong> reference checks, will tell you 1e+06 more than making her write bit-twiddling code in an artificial environment.</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-20</guid>
		<description>@bryan

wouldn&#039;t it just be easier for him/her to show you a project they&#039;ve worked on? 

I&#039;ve heard that some companies do not allow interviewers to request code from interviees(for legal reasons), but for exacmple&#039;s sake, lets say you can.

some might argue that they worked in a team an didn&#039;t do all the coding....but then again you want them to work well in a team so it&#039;s not that bad.

i just think that there should be a better way to figure out if the person is the right one for the job without having to code on a white board.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@bryan</p>
<p>wouldn&#8217;t it just be easier for him/her to show you a project they&#8217;ve worked on? </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard that some companies do not allow interviewers to request code from interviees(for legal reasons), but for exacmple&#8217;s sake, lets say you can.</p>
<p>some might argue that they worked in a team an didn&#8217;t do all the coding&#8230;.but then again you want them to work well in a team so it&#8217;s not that bad.</p>
<p>i just think that there should be a better way to figure out if the person is the right one for the job without having to code on a white board.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan McGinty</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan McGinty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-19</guid>
		<description>&gt; Most interviewers say something reassuring, like, “It’s not important to get the right answer.  I’m more interested in how you approach the problem.”  No candidate believes this.

Well, that is what I am looking for when I ask coding questions in an interview.

&gt; Nor should they, because a candidate with the “right” answer will be perceived as better than one without, all other things being equal.

If a candidate gets the right answer I would assume that s/he has encountered that question before, so I would ask another.

I do agree that asking a question on reversing a string is useless, but asking someone to write something that shows you know how to manipulate bits for a device driver writer position is reasonable.  Also asking an interviewee to evaluate a recursive Fibonacci function is valid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Most interviewers say something reassuring, like, “It’s not important to get the right answer.  I’m more interested in how you approach the problem.”  No candidate believes this.</p>
<p>Well, that is what I am looking for when I ask coding questions in an interview.</p>
<p>&gt; Nor should they, because a candidate with the “right” answer will be perceived as better than one without, all other things being equal.</p>
<p>If a candidate gets the right answer I would assume that s/he has encountered that question before, so I would ask another.</p>
<p>I do agree that asking a question on reversing a string is useless, but asking someone to write something that shows you know how to manipulate bits for a device driver writer position is reasonable.  Also asking an interviewee to evaluate a recursive Fibonacci function is valid.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Jonathan: Thanks for writing.  Just so I&#039;m clear, I think coding tests make sense if you&#039;re hiring someone with no prior work experience (e.g., someone fresh out of college, or who&#039;s switching careers), or if you&#039;re hiring into a very junior coding position.  I.e., one which is literally only &lt;em&gt;coding&lt;/em&gt;.

If they already have work experience, I&#039;m with you: Do a proper background check and ask good interview questions. If you can&#039;t figure them out in 45 minutes to an hour of probing questions plus good reference checking, don&#039;t hire them.

This is perhaps a topic for another post, but I like to ask a mixture of practical and open-ended questions.  I&#039;m not a fan of the Microsoft-popularized &quot;intelligence&quot; questions, like, &quot;If your car was full of gas and weighed 3000 lbs., and you drove onto a bridge with a weight limit of 3000 lbs. in its center, would it collapse?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan: Thanks for writing.  Just so I&#8217;m clear, I think coding tests make sense if you&#8217;re hiring someone with no prior work experience (e.g., someone fresh out of college, or who&#8217;s switching careers), or if you&#8217;re hiring into a very junior coding position.  I.e., one which is literally only <em>coding</em>.</p>
<p>If they already have work experience, I&#8217;m with you: Do a proper background check and ask good interview questions. If you can&#8217;t figure them out in 45 minutes to an hour of probing questions plus good reference checking, don&#8217;t hire them.</p>
<p>This is perhaps a topic for another post, but I like to ask a mixture of practical and open-ended questions.  I&#8217;m not a fan of the Microsoft-popularized &#8220;intelligence&#8221; questions, like, &#8220;If your car was full of gas and weighed 3000 lbs., and you drove onto a bridge with a weight limit of 3000 lbs. in its center, would it collapse?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Joe: The impetus was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001042.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the &quot;Coding Horror&quot; post about interview phone screens&lt;/a&gt;.  In it, Jeff Atwood lauds &lt;a href=&quot;http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/five-essential-phone-screen-questions&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;another blogger&#039;s phone screen advice&lt;/a&gt;, which included giving a coding test over the phone.  You read that right - &lt;em&gt;a coding test over the phone.
&lt;/em&gt;
I had an immediate visceral disagreement with this. I considered how my previous companies handled interview loops.  The result being what you read here. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe: The impetus was <a href="http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001042.html" rel="nofollow">the &#8220;Coding Horror&#8221; post about interview phone screens</a>.  In it, Jeff Atwood lauds <a href="http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/five-essential-phone-screen-questions" rel="nofollow">another blogger&#8217;s phone screen advice</a>, which included giving a coding test over the phone.  You read that right &#8211; <em>a coding test over the phone.<br />
</em><br />
I had an immediate visceral disagreement with this. I considered how my previous companies handled interview loops.  The result being what you read here. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: jonathan</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-11</guid>
		<description>i completely agree with this post....i recently had to conduct two interviews while filling a coder position. i know the guys were software engineers, so asking them to code something would simply be stupid. i was mostly interested in finding out how easily and likely is it for these guys to figure stuff creatively. also to know if they are in the know of what&#039;s going on in the interweb in terms of design, best practices, trends etc etc when it comes to programming. my system might be slightly flawed, but i need it&#039;s turned out good so far. 

any other things i could ask would be highly appreciated</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i completely agree with this post&#8230;.i recently had to conduct two interviews while filling a coder position. i know the guys were software engineers, so asking them to code something would simply be stupid. i was mostly interested in finding out how easily and likely is it for these guys to figure stuff creatively. also to know if they are in the know of what&#8217;s going on in the interweb in terms of design, best practices, trends etc etc when it comes to programming. my system might be slightly flawed, but i need it&#8217;s turned out good so far. </p>
<p>any other things i could ask would be highly appreciated</p>
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		<title>By: Coding test during Interviews</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Coding test during Interviews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 04:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-10</guid>
		<description>[...] from the Seek Nuance blog comments on coding test during interviews: I’ll bet you don’t code standing up at a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] from the Seek Nuance blog comments on coding test during interviews: I’ll bet you don’t code standing up at a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://seeknuance.com/2008/02/15/interview-whiteboard-coding-tests-are-usually-worthless/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 02:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeknuance.com/?p=13#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Now I&#039;m curious. What inspired this post?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I&#8217;m curious. What inspired this post?</p>
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